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	<title>Comments on: Shorts and flip flops at church. . .</title>
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	<description>discovering my place in the picture God is painting</description>
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		<title>By: Nate</title>
		<link>http://restoredtograce.com/2008/06/28/wearing-shorts-and-flip-flops-to-church/comment-page-1/#comment-396</link>
		<dc:creator>Nate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 15:46:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://restoredtograce.wordpress.com/?p=40#comment-396</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-390&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Ida &lt;/a&gt; As a writer, I will create a vehicle to carry a certain idea. The suit is not my scapegoat. A cursory reading could yield that conclusion though. It could also lead to the equally misguided conclusion that I&#039;m referring to Christ&#039;s command to &quot;cut off&quot; or &quot;pluck out&quot; whatever commits an offense. While the principle is there, I want to address something deeper. I want to pose the question, &quot;What are we using as a shield to try to hide from God&#039;s view?&quot;

So you&#039;re right, Ida. The issue isn&#039;t dress standards at all. It&#039;s about being honest with God. Like I said in my post, how can God fix us if we won&#039;t admit to him that we&#039;re broken?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-390" rel="nofollow">@Ida </a> As a writer, I will create a vehicle to carry a certain idea. The suit is not my scapegoat. A cursory reading could yield that conclusion though. It could also lead to the equally misguided conclusion that I&#8217;m referring to Christ&#8217;s command to &#8220;cut off&#8221; or &#8220;pluck out&#8221; whatever commits an offense. While the principle is there, I want to address something deeper. I want to pose the question, &#8220;What are we using as a shield to try to hide from God&#8217;s view?&#8221;</p>
<p>So you&#8217;re right, Ida. The issue isn&#8217;t dress standards at all. It&#8217;s about being honest with God. Like I said in my post, how can God fix us if we won&#8217;t admit to him that we&#8217;re broken?</p>
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		<title>By: Nate</title>
		<link>http://restoredtograce.com/2008/06/28/wearing-shorts-and-flip-flops-to-church/comment-page-1/#comment-395</link>
		<dc:creator>Nate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 13:59:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://restoredtograce.wordpress.com/?p=40#comment-395</guid>
		<description>I guess I should explain this post. I&#039;m recounting personal experience and not trying to impose my standards on others. Maybe what I&#039;d like to do is to make the reader take stock of his/her own life and discover whatever is hindering an open and honest relationship with God.

It&#039;s different for each individual.

But Jason had an interesting point. What signal are we sending others? Yes, I agree, the gospel message is, in itself, an offense. But are we giving off vibes of love and invitation, or are we exuding exclusivism and judgmental attitudes? Can we look at ourselves from the outside and see if we&#039;re doing anything to hinder the gospel?

Is it possible that Jason&#039;s unsaved friend may have heard the message more clearly without the noise of a dress code ringing in his ears? I can&#039;t say; perhaps he would have found something else to harp on, but what if his feeling that people were judging him for his dress happened to be the only thing standing between him and Jesus?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess I should explain this post. I&#8217;m recounting personal experience and not trying to impose my standards on others. Maybe what I&#8217;d like to do is to make the reader take stock of his/her own life and discover whatever is hindering an open and honest relationship with God.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s different for each individual.</p>
<p>But Jason had an interesting point. What signal are we sending others? Yes, I agree, the gospel message is, in itself, an offense. But are we giving off vibes of love and invitation, or are we exuding exclusivism and judgmental attitudes? Can we look at ourselves from the outside and see if we&#8217;re doing anything to hinder the gospel?</p>
<p>Is it possible that Jason&#8217;s unsaved friend may have heard the message more clearly without the noise of a dress code ringing in his ears? I can&#8217;t say; perhaps he would have found something else to harp on, but what if his feeling that people were judging him for his dress happened to be the only thing standing between him and Jesus?</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer</title>
		<link>http://restoredtograce.com/2008/06/28/wearing-shorts-and-flip-flops-to-church/comment-page-1/#comment-394</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 12:11:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://restoredtograce.wordpress.com/?p=40#comment-394</guid>
		<description>Wow. Ida, I grew up in your church--I remember you as a tot. And so I&#039;m going to say this with love: you seem really angry. I don&#039;t know if it&#039;s because Nate described something that is a real problem in that church and you&#039;re defensive about it or what. I don&#039;t think he was blaming his lack of brokenness on a suit. What he was describing was his experience of believing that by following &quot;the rules of that church&quot;, namely dressing up in a suit, that he was &quot;spiritual&quot;. I can relate because when I went to that church, I felt that unspoken rule and lived by it too, fooling myself of my &quot;righteousness&quot;. And yes, I looked down on outsiders who came in not dressed like the rest of us. I was telling them, &quot;you&#039;re not one of us&quot;. Shame on me for ever being that way.

I&#039;m not saying that everyone in that church is that way or that even the majority of the folks are that way (my parents STILL are members there), but because I was a member longer than you&#039;ve been alive, I can say with reasonable certainty that it&#039;s a common problem there.

Nate knows he didn&#039;t become &quot;broken&quot; by putting on shorts and flip flops. He first realized his brokenness and realized he didn&#039;t need a suit--he needed God. And so I think his change of attire was just a physical representation of his inward change. I think his humility in admitting he even had a spiritual problem is taking responsibility like an adult. He admitted pretty much to the world that he&#039;s not perfect. Which is somthing I NEVER once witnessed in anyone at our former church. No one ever admitted their sin unless they were confronted with it and couldn&#039;t run from it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow. Ida, I grew up in your church&#8211;I remember you as a tot. And so I&#8217;m going to say this with love: you seem really angry. I don&#8217;t know if it&#8217;s because Nate described something that is a real problem in that church and you&#8217;re defensive about it or what. I don&#8217;t think he was blaming his lack of brokenness on a suit. What he was describing was his experience of believing that by following &#8220;the rules of that church&#8221;, namely dressing up in a suit, that he was &#8220;spiritual&#8221;. I can relate because when I went to that church, I felt that unspoken rule and lived by it too, fooling myself of my &#8220;righteousness&#8221;. And yes, I looked down on outsiders who came in not dressed like the rest of us. I was telling them, &#8220;you&#8217;re not one of us&#8221;. Shame on me for ever being that way.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying that everyone in that church is that way or that even the majority of the folks are that way (my parents STILL are members there), but because I was a member longer than you&#8217;ve been alive, I can say with reasonable certainty that it&#8217;s a common problem there.</p>
<p>Nate knows he didn&#8217;t become &#8220;broken&#8221; by putting on shorts and flip flops. He first realized his brokenness and realized he didn&#8217;t need a suit&#8211;he needed God. And so I think his change of attire was just a physical representation of his inward change. I think his humility in admitting he even had a spiritual problem is taking responsibility like an adult. He admitted pretty much to the world that he&#8217;s not perfect. Which is somthing I NEVER once witnessed in anyone at our former church. No one ever admitted their sin unless they were confronted with it and couldn&#8217;t run from it.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Hall</title>
		<link>http://restoredtograce.com/2008/06/28/wearing-shorts-and-flip-flops-to-church/comment-page-1/#comment-393</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Hall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:27:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://restoredtograce.wordpress.com/?p=40#comment-393</guid>
		<description>The gospel is offensive to the world... thats what the bible says, but our dress, words, and actions should be filled with Love concern and thoughtfulness. We ought to live peaceably with all men as much as possible. I take that to mean we should make unbelievers feel as welcome and loved as possible at any time we are around them</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The gospel is offensive to the world&#8230; thats what the bible says, but our dress, words, and actions should be filled with Love concern and thoughtfulness. We ought to live peaceably with all men as much as possible. I take that to mean we should make unbelievers feel as welcome and loved as possible at any time we are around them</p>
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		<title>By: Adam J. Boyer</title>
		<link>http://restoredtograce.com/2008/06/28/wearing-shorts-and-flip-flops-to-church/comment-page-1/#comment-392</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam J. Boyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 04:59:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://restoredtograce.wordpress.com/?p=40#comment-392</guid>
		<description>Now you&#039;ve gone and dunnit, Nate- you pissed of Ida!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now you&#8217;ve gone and dunnit, Nate- you pissed of Ida!</p>
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		<title>By: Ida</title>
		<link>http://restoredtograce.com/2008/06/28/wearing-shorts-and-flip-flops-to-church/comment-page-1/#comment-391</link>
		<dc:creator>Ida</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 03:56:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://restoredtograce.wordpress.com/?p=40#comment-391</guid>
		<description>and also, Jason, wouldn&#039;t the fact that this friend of yours didn&#039;t know Christ as his Savior make him uncomfortable in itself? I don&#039;t know one unsaved person that feels comfortable when presented with the truth of God&#039;s word.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>and also, Jason, wouldn&#8217;t the fact that this friend of yours didn&#8217;t know Christ as his Savior make him uncomfortable in itself? I don&#8217;t know one unsaved person that feels comfortable when presented with the truth of God&#8217;s word.</p>
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		<title>By: Ida</title>
		<link>http://restoredtograce.com/2008/06/28/wearing-shorts-and-flip-flops-to-church/comment-page-1/#comment-390</link>
		<dc:creator>Ida</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 03:47:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://restoredtograce.wordpress.com/?p=40#comment-390</guid>
		<description>Nate, I guess my real problem with the entry is not really at all the issue of dressing up or not dressing up in church. It&#039;s the fact that you blamed your inability to be broken before God on your suit, an inanimate object, instead of just taking the responsibility for yourself like a responsible adult.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nate, I guess my real problem with the entry is not really at all the issue of dressing up or not dressing up in church. It&#8217;s the fact that you blamed your inability to be broken before God on your suit, an inanimate object, instead of just taking the responsibility for yourself like a responsible adult.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer</title>
		<link>http://restoredtograce.com/2008/06/28/wearing-shorts-and-flip-flops-to-church/comment-page-1/#comment-389</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 02:53:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://restoredtograce.wordpress.com/?p=40#comment-389</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s a great point, Jason, and I wanted to bring it up. I&#039;m willing to bet that any church--those that are more formal in dress and those that are not--when sending a missionary out into the field would encourage that missionary to adopt the customs of the culture they are trying to reach. Customs in dress, food, language, etc...If that is the case, then how come we don&#039;t do that for our OWN culture?

I&#039;ve never seen a verse in the Bible where God asks us to &quot;dress up&quot;, so I&#039;d put that in the category of a man-made &quot;rule&quot;. What I do think God asks of us is that we remain modest in such a way so that we don&#039;t cause anyone to struggle with lust. There&#039;s a difference. I can dress casually and modestly at the same time. I can &quot;dress up&quot; and still dress immodestly and visa versa.

Regarding &quot;dressing down&quot; being associated with the liberal movement, and &quot;dressing up&quot; so as not to &quot;offend&quot; others--aren&#039;t liberal Christians still Christians and thus, still our brothers and sisters? To look down upon them for the way they dress demonstrates a lack of love. Worse, in that attitude, one usurps God&#039;s authority by judging his servants. The reverse is true too. Those of us who love to dress casually shouldn&#039;t look down on those who don&#039;t.

Again, the spirit of love should prevail, and one&#039;s heart and mind should be bent towards pleasing God alone and not worrying about what others will think of us if we dress down (or perhaps up), unless it involves a question of modesty and/or a real desire to reach the lost around us.

I love my bros and sisters who love to dress up and I love my brothers and sisters who love to dress down. But I love most when my brothers and sisters are authentic in heart and spirit regardless of what they&#039;re wearing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a great point, Jason, and I wanted to bring it up. I&#8217;m willing to bet that any church&#8211;those that are more formal in dress and those that are not&#8211;when sending a missionary out into the field would encourage that missionary to adopt the customs of the culture they are trying to reach. Customs in dress, food, language, etc&#8230;If that is the case, then how come we don&#8217;t do that for our OWN culture?</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve never seen a verse in the Bible where God asks us to &#8220;dress up&#8221;, so I&#8217;d put that in the category of a man-made &#8220;rule&#8221;. What I do think God asks of us is that we remain modest in such a way so that we don&#8217;t cause anyone to struggle with lust. There&#8217;s a difference. I can dress casually and modestly at the same time. I can &#8220;dress up&#8221; and still dress immodestly and visa versa.</p>
<p>Regarding &#8220;dressing down&#8221; being associated with the liberal movement, and &#8220;dressing up&#8221; so as not to &#8220;offend&#8221; others&#8211;aren&#8217;t liberal Christians still Christians and thus, still our brothers and sisters? To look down upon them for the way they dress demonstrates a lack of love. Worse, in that attitude, one usurps God&#8217;s authority by judging his servants. The reverse is true too. Those of us who love to dress casually shouldn&#8217;t look down on those who don&#8217;t.</p>
<p>Again, the spirit of love should prevail, and one&#8217;s heart and mind should be bent towards pleasing God alone and not worrying about what others will think of us if we dress down (or perhaps up), unless it involves a question of modesty and/or a real desire to reach the lost around us.</p>
<p>I love my bros and sisters who love to dress up and I love my brothers and sisters who love to dress down. But I love most when my brothers and sisters are authentic in heart and spirit regardless of what they&#8217;re wearing.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Hall</title>
		<link>http://restoredtograce.com/2008/06/28/wearing-shorts-and-flip-flops-to-church/comment-page-1/#comment-388</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Hall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 01:52:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://restoredtograce.wordpress.com/?p=40#comment-388</guid>
		<description>recently an unsaved acquaintance decided to show up at my old church in MI in which the majority of men wear at least a shirt and tie and he came in shorts and a button down shirt... though he said everyone was friendly he admitted he couldn&#039;t help noticing that people noticed him and how he was dressed. He said if he didn&#039;t know a few of us guys at the church he would have felt extremely out of place and unwelcome.

I&#039;m not at all suggesting abandoning dressing up a little as we go to church but I have been thinking on this topic a lot lately and trying to figure out how it all works together and I thought I would throw this out there since everyone is talking about this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>recently an unsaved acquaintance decided to show up at my old church in MI in which the majority of men wear at least a shirt and tie and he came in shorts and a button down shirt&#8230; though he said everyone was friendly he admitted he couldn&#8217;t help noticing that people noticed him and how he was dressed. He said if he didn&#8217;t know a few of us guys at the church he would have felt extremely out of place and unwelcome.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not at all suggesting abandoning dressing up a little as we go to church but I have been thinking on this topic a lot lately and trying to figure out how it all works together and I thought I would throw this out there since everyone is talking about this.</p>
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		<title>By: james kelly</title>
		<link>http://restoredtograce.com/2008/06/28/wearing-shorts-and-flip-flops-to-church/comment-page-1/#comment-387</link>
		<dc:creator>james kelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Aug 2008 16:53:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://restoredtograce.wordpress.com/?p=40#comment-387</guid>
		<description>so whether you eat or drink or whatever you do do it all for the glory of God.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>so whether you eat or drink or whatever you do do it all for the glory of God.</p>
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